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Emily3144
Stephen5857
Thank you for the detailed information. We have been using the main directions for a long time. However, we try to test the water for Ca and K more frequently. We work with calcium chloride cautiously, purchasing it at the pharmacy. Considering the test results, we add the specified reagents only as needed. However, the provided recipe gives a more complete and objective understanding of the most important issues related to maintaining the cruising levels of pH, K, and Ca.
Laura3615
Great article, thank you. "We have been using it for a long time," "we add the specified reagents." How many of you are there?
Nicholas2252
I think the advantage of this method is for owners of small tanks, where reagent consumption is minimal. The method is quite simple (after such a detailed description). For beginners, the article will provide a lot of information. Everywhere you hear "balling, balling...!" Here, it is explained in detail what it is and how to use it!
Anthony4281
The article is published with the permission of Nikolai Strochkov aka "Sleepy." There was a lively discussion about the balling method on the AKVALO forum, what it is and how to use it. I have a weak understanding of chemistry and couldn't fully grasp what is added, in what quantities, and for what purpose. This article clarified everything for me regarding balling. It turned out to be quite simple, explained literally in layman's terms. +1 I disagree.
Colin1418
Aha! And here is the answer to such simple questions!!! Apparently, one needs to ask more complex questions to get simpler answers.
Raven7170
You're joking)))) Don't mess around.
Joseph8592
Thank you very much for the article, but let's go in order. I am a beginner in marine aquaristics, why does this article scare people away? You know, many people are familiar with biology and chemistry even before starting a marine aquarium. In the initial stages, I will be using the Balling method; this method is clear to me and, most importantly, is practically free for some reasons.
Melissa2062
In my aquarium today: Ca-450, pH-8.2, kH-8-9. What other questions do you have and what other answers do you need? Review the photos again, or maybe you've already decided that this is not my aquarium and I'm just talking nonsense? By the way, in our city, the method without CR works in 4 aquariums without any issues. Why do the three signatories constantly want to impose their satellites on us? We've said many times that CR is a great device, and we will use it when we decide to. And here you are again...
Reginald5073
Well, Sherlock!!!
But what are we arguing about again? Miracles don't happen, we all know that. All methods have already been invented before us, we won't start a revolution!!! We can only hope to keep up with Europe and the USA.
Jacqueline6670
If I'm not mistaken, in the discussion about balling, there was a description of systems that use only two solutions (without salt), and these systems function well. Salinity is adjusted during water changes. With this approach and without using expensive branded additives, the cost of the balling method is very low.
Emily3144
Well, these are not showcase aquariums with low consumption of additives. With cheap additives (like baking soda, for example), we won't achieve good coral health and vibrant colors. For balling in saturated SPS, only high-quality solutions (farm) can be used (no cheap additives, baking soda, etc.).
Ryan7682
Stas, you are basically right, but the pure substances (farm) in companies that specifically trade in chemicals are significantly cheaper than those positioned as specialized aquarium brands. The chemical purity is the same. I seriously doubt that each brand has its own chemical plant.
Meghan
I agree. Therefore, if anyone wants to buy a bag of calcium chloride or sodium bicarbonate of pharmaceutical purity, I will participate with 3 kg. I don't need much (just for balancing the parameters, since KR is the main factor), and it is only sold in large packages.
Brandy1134
I am ready to participate. I have a thesis. But let it be on standby. Let's discuss the price. If it's convenient, then in private messages.
P.S. We have already discussed it.
Alec9378
Give me links to many aquariums that keep SPS (small-polyped corals) on calcium hydroxide!!! Or is this only known to you? The phrase that such people don't sit on the forum doesn't hold water! This will be considered as pushing nonsense!!! Your twisting of phrases is already very tiresome!!! All of this is just words that are not backed by anything!
Laura3673
Tolik, I'm not nervous! There would be a reason to be. I haven't seen a single SPS (small-polyped corals) in the aquarium on calcium hydroxide, and I'm sure I won't see one. And after 15 years of fruitful work, you as a specialist should know or at least suspect this!
Cassandra7840
SPS aquarium has quite a decent potential. Questions about it should be directed to Alik if you're interested. As for LPS, it's everywhere, at least for me...
Once again, I remind you that KR is a good thing. Honor and praise to those who work with it, but what is mentioned in the introductory post deserves close attention—this was developed by far from amateurs. Let's be tolerant and objective, shall we?
Alexey and I will definitely assemble KR; we've talked about it more than once. But this will be done in a working manner when we come to the conclusion of its specific necessity...
Steven757
Indeed, it's a vicious circle. Ca(OH)2. And where did it come from to our heads? How to maintain the system with it... I thought of closing the discussion so as not to tire the Forum, does that work?..... From my side, the comments are exhausted... everything is in the information above. Write whatever you want, I've already said everything, goodbye!
Kimberly
As far as I understand, hydroxide is kalkwasser. So why can't you keep a reef on it? It used to be quite popular. You keep potassium hydroxide with soda. And calcium and pH with a mixer.
Megan
It is possible, but then it is necessary to artificially increase evaporation to several dozen liters per day, and it is still unknown if there will be enough calcium... and what the pH will be then.
Sandra7004
And why increase the evaporation?
Brooke3987
Calcium hydroxide dissolves very little in water, just a little over a gram, so to pour a lot of fresh water, it needs to be evaporated.
Alyssa1438
There is also a fact about kalkwasser. We need to ask Dmitry to place it here instead of the last 30 posts. Kalkwasser raises calcium and KH, but as has been said many times before, it significantly raises the system's pH and is very poorly soluble (about 1.7 g/liter). In other words, calcium hydroxide is completely ineffective in the case of high consumption of carbonate and calcium by corals.
Thomas5021
Come on, let's hear him out and give him the right to his opinion.
Deborah2682
For me, whether it's the Balling method or CR, it doesn't make much difference... I see you didn't notice the essence... I maintain that it is impossible to keep SPS with the help of calcium hydroxide! No way!
Karen
Well, since we've already moved on to "entertaining schizophrenia," I have a few questions. Is it really possible to achieve bright and saturated coral colors with such a set of chemical elements? The skeleton growth is understandable, but what about the color of the tissues, or let the zooxanthellae do their work? Now, regarding calcium reactors, what do you have lying around? If it's just coral rubble, then it seems to me that's not enough. There are mostly Ca and P salts and a very insignificant amount of other mineral salts. Then what's the point of arguing so much with Anatoly? Come on, you're swinging from one extreme to another.
Randall7906
I wrote for a long time. Denis was right about the forum.
Andrew9581
There is another way. Very peculiar.
Amy
which?
John1464
Please translate.
P.S. I consider LPS to be easier to care for than SPS:
1. They slowly gain skeletal mass compared to SPS, so they can be kept without calcium reactors (balling) with a small number of them in the aquarium.
2. Lower light and water cleanliness requirements - LPS are usually lagoon species.
3. Lower flow requirements - again, SPS, unlike LPS, grow on the reef crest.
Nancy758
The opinion is very outdated, and you are most likely referring to the book by Ova and Savchuk. There are many inaccuracies regarding the content of corals. Below, I have provided links from a very authoritative source that confirm my statements regarding SPS and LPS. And note that, as an example for SPS, I took the MOST hardy and undemanding species (everything in comparison).
Brandy1134
This is to place an aquarium by the sea and let a stream flow through it.
Jill9137
Did you not understand that he is explaining to you that he has a soft riff and he is talking about his riff, not about SPS riffs, and that he has been fine for a decade? And whatever he writes, you twist it as if he is writing about SPS.
Shelby3182
They talked and talked................ What does Anatoly's riff have to do with this?? What have I twisted?? It's already clear to everyone that calcium hydroxide is quite enough for Anatoly's riff!! Who on the forum is arguing with this????????? The fact is that a person claims that SPS corals can be successfully kept on kalkwasser! And when he is asked (by the way, not just me!) to justify his statements, he avoids answering! Although he knows he is wrong! I already suggested he admit his mistake, but in response, silence... What a surprise....
Tiffany5069
Stop, no need to fight!!! Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the neighboring topic about calkwasser. There you can justify how to run SPS on calcium hydroxide.
And here - it's about balling!
Let's all kindly ask to erase everything here that doesn't concern balling.
Danielle9144
It's time to clean up the topic, otherwise you guys have gone off track, although it all started so well.
Best regards.
Lindsey3628
I welcome and support the balling method by Nikolai Strochkov. I also welcome and support the articles by Ova and Savchuk in the book "Rifovy Aquarium." I consider it shortsighted, if not foolish, to discard a competent and unique work in the CIS. I do not accept the critical demagoguery regarding CR, SPS, LPS, reagents, etc., which is expressed in a spirit of self-admiration and cheap bravado. I rely on my own knowledge and many years of experience; if I choose to share my experience with anyone, it will not be with you, esteemed and unique deities in your own right. Good luck once again.
Crystal4879
Guys, stop measuring strength, the topic has turned into spam. Time will judge everyone and put everything in its place.
Best regards.
Laura3615
I didn't want to see you in the ring again, but I felt sorry for you again. Of course, everyone will criticize everything again, but what can you do—life as a marine aquarist is hard and unglamorous... Moreover, you asked for some links; will one be enough? I can provide more...
Laura3673
In principle, I know at least one reef keeper who likes brown corals, but it's still not to my taste. Also, the drawbacks of using calcium reactor mentioned in the final paragraph, "Once a month I take out the pumps, soak them in vinegar for an hour, and clean them. I also prepare kalkwasser once a week," can be quite tedious, and if you miss this event, a clog can happen. In my opinion, it's better to add CO2 to the aquarium through the calcium reactor; the pumps don't clog, and the corals look more colorful.
Richard
Off-topic
A year or two ago, there was such a "fizzle" in the Arena in Kyiv (a guy was bringing a soda machine to be refilled). With a fatal outcome. Although, of course, there are more chances of getting hit by a car.
Joshua3019
Tolik! Maintaining a simple marine aquarium can be done with water changes... but that's not the point of the argument! If we go back to the beginning of the dispute in this forum thread, you wrote that you use additional chemicals with kalkwasser, while in other topics you claimed that you use nothing but kalkwasser. This means you can be excluded from the specialists worth listening to!!! Your advice is very dangerous!
Denise
What overflow of hydroxide are you talking about? Yes, it’s possible, but that’s why we have our heads, so that the equipment doesn’t fail during a meal at the festive table. The dispenser needs to be checked, overflows need to be monitored, and the cylinders must undergo inspections. The safety membrane on the hydrogen chloride synthesis reactor once, for some reason, didn’t work—half the workshop was destroyed, I still see it, it seems like it was yesterday. Seven people died then. And sometimes the electricity goes out unexpectedly, doesn’t it?
Cindy
What a crushing blow? Your failure is visible, but show me mine!! I am not criticizing you, but the fact that you cannot contain spsриф only on кальквассер. I have no claims against your person! This is not the first time you say goodbye, but you rise again with new strength from... ... farewell...
Amber
+100000. You are clearly wrong, but stubbornly refuse to admit it! But this is obvious to anyone reading this topic.
P.S. The aquarium in your link (post #76) is horrifying! It's a mockery of animals. Only the tridacnas are beautiful. I haven't seen such brown LPS and SPS in a long time. They must be very unhealthy...
P.P.S. If you have relevant information, please participate in the topic about kalkwasser. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the chemical calculations?
Charles4157
I am not a moderator in this thread. As for the fact that this is how people leave the forum, as one of my friends says in response to the question "how are you?" - "you won't get a response." As for the substance, the article was posted to explain in simple terms what the balling method is and how to use it, not to discuss aquariums or forum members. Although the post comparing KR and balling has stirred up quite a bit of discussion, I think it would be appropriate to move the article to the "important" section and transfer the discussion. And if there were a similar article about KR... I did see one once, but it was in English, and it was more about setting up the device.
Jesse3979
Gentlemen, does anyone use a dispenser for adding balling?
Patricia1746
I, although I no longer use balling - the doser was (and is). Peristaltic pumps are easy to connect and configure on the aquacomputer (manufactured in Kharkiv "Aquadizain"). I got the pumps there as well.
Now I think about using these pumps for pumping.
Nicholas
Good topic! More precisely, its beginning! Thanks to Fedor.
Eric5208
I bought a balling system. From today, I will start monitoring KH and Ca.
There are 130 liters of net water in the system. There are almost no macrophytes. Soft corals, LPS, SPS.
I want to conduct an experiment for LPS.
What should I photograph or measure now to formulate the report correctly later?
Lori4746
pH, K, Ca, Mg....
Rodney
Mg... no, I won't... pH - yes, we will do it.
Sheila
For nothing!
Joseph2576
Yarik, for them it's good when Ca is 450-460 ppm and Mg is 1200-1300 ppm. Hard corals need consistency in these parameters, and magnesium is as important for them as calcium, as it is also an element responsible for the skeleton-building process. How can you track its presence without testing? There are decent tests for this, for example, JBL; I use them regularly and have no particular complaints.
Selena4467
Off-topic. Maybe because I've never measured it. I'll think about it.
What else should I pay attention to?
Christopher
It seems like tropical baling with magnesium dressed in pack S is going on. Probably, there's no need to measure.
Daniel8015
Isn't package C just salt without NaCl?
Tara2761
It's her. They wrote on the logo that it seems there are magnesium supplements included in the package.
Johnny
Off-topic The saddest thing is that the tests lie! You think you’re monitoring everything, measuring, everything is under control, but the test blatantly lies! JBL pH test - you can even write in the test tube and it still shows pH-8.0. JBL ammonium test - in fresh water that was salted just 3-4 hours ago, it shows ammonium 0.2. Serovskiy phosphate test - always shows zero... So which test should be used to monitor pH, KH, Ca, Mg? Tropic Marin? The instructions don’t say. Strange... If there was a magnesium supplement, it would be written in bold on the box.
Stephen5841
I don't have instructions, but judging by the information from Denis (AiRif) and this topic, everything should be in the third package. Once a week, drain to the levels of solutions 1 and 2. Although the levels may not match. Then to the higher value in one of the containers.
We just need to understand what to monitor. Otherwise, it will turn out that we are only monitoring the financial aspect.
Emily3506
You mainly need to monitor calcium and KH. As soon as you understand the proportions in which to add the solutions, you can do the tests once a month. Immediately, if possible, measure how much calcium increases when you add half a liter (a liter, etc.) of the solution. In the future, this will help you understand how much of each to add.
Christine864
Yarik, catch the instructions.
Melissa
I'm getting used to the calcium test. TM.
I do it in the evening, under artificial light. The range over the past day was 40-65. (465 compared to 420-400 yesterday) That's quite a lot... Maybe I missed something...
The KH is stable at -7. pH 8-8.1
Should I start adding the first solution today or monitor the parameters for a couple more days?
Mitchell7972
With such calcium levels, there is no need to add anything; this is normal. If you can, calculate how much calcium you consume in a day or two. After that, you need to determine the amount of solution to be added to compensate for the missing substances.
Joshua3019
Yes, that's what I was getting at - if this dynamic is not an error (which I will double-check today) - then I will start the topping up today or tomorrow.
Kathy
The test is really stupid. I can only do it in normal daylight, as catching the transition from mini-blue to micro requires photometer eyes. I think the most unsuccessful test is from Tropica.
Danielle
Off-topic Oh, I agree, I agree... To be honest, measuring like this in the 21st century is an anachronism, if not to say - primitive... Such testing is better suited to a result like - who the hell knows, it seems like this... Here, not only does the tropic fly by like a copper basin, but all existing branded tests do too. But... in the absence of fish, a crayfish is a fish... There is nothing better. We'll have to be content with what we have...
Diana3118
For this test, we need female eyes! And the transition should be from blue to colorless.
Rodney3101
Offtopic Haha, when I take tests, I ask my daughter to determine what corresponds to what. I don't get it myself. On the scale it's one thing, in the test tube who knows what. Even the devil can't figure it out. What accuracy is there...
Devon107
Off-topic. That's right! Women are better at distinguishing colors!
Brooke
great calcium test from API. it's a two-part test. the transition is clearly visible from red to blue. I double-checked with Salifert and Tropic. I don't know where to buy it.
Brian7092
So why not use Salifert then? In my opinion, it's an excellent test!
Tammy2040
It was my mistake - today calcium is 444.
Here’s what we have so far:
Date pH -- KH --Ca - Salinity - PO4 - NO3
14 ---8.1 --7 --465 -1.024
15 ---8.0 --7 --400 -1.024
16 ---7.9 --8 --444 -1.024 ----0 --- 0
If the trend continues - two weeks between water changes - and that's it.
Although the last water change was about 45 liters, with my 125 liters of clean water. Usually, it's 25-30 liters.
John1464
I agree. I will only take Salifert.
Angela6489
Sorry if this article has already been discussed here and I missed it, but just in case, I'll provide the link -
Julie4738
Maybe someone can help understand this:
1. It is necessary to pour 2 solutions to get a reaction. Why is there a need for an interval between adding the components?
2. Why not mix the 2 solutions separately from the aquarium and then pour the result of the reaction Ca(HCO3)2 later?
Noah1632
Since everyone is silent, I will answer. Very superficially and accessibly, without delving into formulas... If you mix solution A and B in one container, a reaction will occur immediately... calcium will precipitate... and the water will become salty...
Erica752
Again, very primitively (conditionally)... Coral, for the growth of its calcium skeleton, will take Ca2+ from seawater and leave 2Cl-. And again, coral, for the growth of its skeleton, will take (HCO3)2- and leave 2Na+.
Erin
Offtopic You know, at one time I delved into the details but have forgotten them over time, and it doesn't really matter. Why do you need to understand all this? There is an instruction that is advisable to follow. Judging by your questions, you don't (and I don't either), so just mix A and B in one container and see how something precipitates. Whether you understand the process or not, the process itself doesn't change. Or are you just too lazy or find it inconvenient to pour at different times as per the instructions?
Paul
I'm not interested in doing things I don't understand. It turns into an imitation of activity rather than a hobby. And this: pour from jar A, and then after 10 minutes or 100 minutes or 12 hours - from jar B, is alarming and disappointing. It's some kind of hocus-pocus. By the way, it's written here directly:
Jesse3979
Just when we dissolve salt, we pour everything into the water at the same time, and with good salt, there is no sediment, while calcium and everything else is normal. This is what is misleading.
Ryan
Alright, just for you, one more hint: the solubility of calcium bicarbonate is extremely low at 1.9 g/L. And what is the concentration of solutions A and B?
Ricky9405
1. Sounds like a favor. Is no one else going to read it besides me? We're not in a private correspondence... Anyway, thank you, I'm interested in any reliable information.
2. I'm aware of the solubility.
3. Well, we can choose any concentration ourselves. As far as I can see, the future solutions seem to be sold in the form of dry powders. Or not?
Nicole
People will read it, but the information does not carry any meaningful content. Well, we cannot choose any concentration. At the very least, because we cannot pour in several dozen liters every day (nor can we keep large containers in the apartment). The density of aquarium water must remain constant. The density of the solutions is close to that of seawater (more concentrated solutions A and B will soon become coral skeletons).
Brandy
Today I stopped by a chemical reagents store, 1 kg of calcium chloride in granules costs 77 (seems a bit expensive to me), I was confused by the composition, it contains arsenic, heavy metals, iron, all in very small doses, but still. The seller claimed that this is food-grade CaCl2. Can I use this? I took a photo with my phone, but it turned out blurry! Can't read it. The composition is something like this:
Tanner
It is very expensive, and it cannot be used (it is very dirty and technical). Pure calcium chloride costs about 20. The German dihydrate, which is mainly used in branded balings, costs about 80. For study (Calcium chloride, dihydrate (Germany) 1 kg 65).
Gene1948
God forbid to use such calcium with arsenic and heavy metals. You could poison the aquarium like that.
Chelsea567
They sell salts here on the forum (including calcium chloride) in bulk.
I bought from this guy. Everything is fine.
Mariah
It's cheaper to enter "Sinbias."
Michael826
I liked the topic, but I need to read it about five times to understand what and how to mix. I'll try to buy the bags first.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Tammy2040
1. Calcium chloride.
2. Soda.
That's it!
Joseph2576
1/Soda
2/Calcium chloride CaCl2
3/Magnesium in two forms MgCl2+6H2O + MgSO4+7H2O, mix together, as the dispenser is for 3 pumps.
4/Salt without salt/can be a one-time weekly dose/or now Ultra Trace B1, B2, B3.
Joshua9847
About salt without salt, can you elaborate a bit more?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Debra6575
In "salt without salt," there is everything that is in regular salt, except for NaCl.
Kristen2246
Perhaps someone knows from their experience or has purely theoretical considerations about what will happen if solutions are added in a non-classical manner? Roughly speaking, for example, if there is an excess of sodium ions after a "soda overdose"? Or conversely, if too much calcium chloride is added and there are too many chloride ions?
Lisa
It will be bad, but not right away. You will be very upset.
Brian6895
I conducted an experiment. I took 1 liter of aquarium water. I measured Ca at 340. I added a CaCl solution, increasing the Ca level to 390. I added the soda solution drop by drop according to the ratio. The Ca dropped to 370.
It is stated above that the addition of Ca and soda should be spaced out over time. Is it really the case that if the addition of solutions is spaced out, Ca will not precipitate? Here, it seems that it is not about spacing out in time, but rather about adding soda in small concentrations over a long period. In short, if the aquarium "consumes" a lot of Ca, then dosing is not effective, and a Ca reactor is needed.
Steven
Good day, everyone! I am using balling from TM, dosing 40 ml of each solution. The animals' condition is normal, but the parameters are a bit off, specifically the kH has dropped. Currently: Ca-470, kH-6.4, Mg-1260, salt-1.024, and pH remains at 8.0. I have a question on how to proceed:
1. Leave everything as it is.
2. Dose more buffer, for example, 50 ml, while keeping calcium and SBS at 40 ml.
3. Stop dosing calcium and SBS and only dose buffer for now.
I look forward to practical advice. Thank you!
Kimberly3727
It turns out that you have several solutions, but you use them as a complex ABC additive, eliminating all the advantages of separate dosing. You need to gradually raise the buffer and magnesium to the norm and then add all the supplements in depletion ratios, which should be determined experimentally by regularly testing the water.
Rachel9060
That is, when kH and Mg are normal, should I start adding all three solutions in equal proportions? Or can the volumes of the solutions still be non-proportional? I understand about magnesium. Can you advise on how to raise it? Thank you. P.S. I was hoping that magnesium would come to normal due to SBS, but I understand that there is so little of it that it won't make a difference.
Justin9867
Thank you very much for the detailed and clear response!
Steven
I apologize for being persistent, but I have one more question. For now, I'm only adding buffer, I ordered magnesium from Fauna in Magnesium Mix, and I'm not adding calcium until it stabilizes. What should I do about salt without salt?
1. Don't add it at all.
2. Add as much as the buffer.
3. Or some other value.
I'm using SBS from TM.
Brian7092
How sharply can magnesium be raised? It's clear that with a buffer it needs to be gradual. And can I then add it once a week after I stabilize the magnesium? Thank you.
P.S. Is the container just for 3 sections, or will I have to add SBS once a week or magnesium?
Joe
Good morning! I am following your recommendations closely. I adjust magnesium once a week (I slightly overdid it at 1450, now it's 1400), and I keep kH at 8.5. However, calcium is gradually decreasing, currently at 390. Although I increase the calcium dosage every day, it's a gradual increase of 4-6 ml per day. My questions are:
- Can I also raise calcium by 10-20 ppm per day?
- And while I am raising calcium, should I continue to add the buffer as before?
P.S. As I understand it, at high kH values, calcium cannot be absorbed by the system and precipitates out. Is that correct?
P.S. It's possible that my pets are happy with the correct parameters and that's why they are consuming more calcium. The corals are growing.
Heather9815
Good evening. I observed the same process; after adjusting magnesium, calcium rose sharply and then started to be consumed much faster, which is clearly noticeable in the corals. Now you need to determine the weekly dosage to maintain 8.5 KH, 1400 Mg, 415± Ca, and everything will be great. Raise calcium very slowly, and there’s no point in making strong adjustments. I want to try balling using this system: by the way, they have calculators for just about anything (Balling and additives) on their website.