Re: Help with advice on creating a marine aquarium.

Phyllis

2

Barbara8192

Thank you for giving me a separate thread - I will try not to disgrace the "high trust" placed in me. Guys - once again about my case - otherwise I will still bother you, I am persistent. What do you think of my idea - to buy equipment for 250-300 liters, but start with 140? Everything except for the light - can it be switched to a larger aquarium later? I already have it. And my requirements for the inhabitants are minimal - I swear I was overjoyed with just one coral and two clownfish - I am really a minimalist.

Selena4467

In my opinion, the idea is right; I have everything in reserve. The sea is worse than a drug; you get hooked and don't even notice when you have not just one coral but a couple of clowns as well. Go for it boldly and don't be afraid.

Rebecca

Then I need to come up with a sump larger than the stand I currently have for 140 liters - that is, 60x30x50? I can place it next to it and then transfer it to the adult aquarium. Moreover, the stand was bought together with the aquarium - I think it's just regular particle board that will swell quickly. What dimensions are desirable for a sump for 250-300 liters?

Nicholas2252

In my opinion, it's better not to rush with a large sump: the main thing is that it should be convenient for you and you shouldn't stumble; it will take an average of 3 to 6 months for the setup and development of the marine environment, and it's still better to treat the stand with either yacht varnish or polymer. Make the system functional first and foremost, and the sump volume depends on the size of the aquarium and the owner's personal preference: the main thing is to have the equipment set up, calcium in any form, and a little extra just in case, and we can refeed from what remains.

Joshua

Yacht varnish!!! The class of thought - how I myself didn't quite get it - thanks. I opened a booth for the dog for them - second winter - flight "you won't get cold." Sorry - I'm refudging, I haven't reached that point yet - cooling??? If so, then a counter question - what if I have an air conditioner in the house and it's above +23, or rather, it never stays at +23 in any case - do I need it? Should I refudge this?

Stephen

Refugium is an algae filter, a compartment in the sump with algae... it definitely needs to have light... If there is an air conditioner, I don't think additional cooling is necessary for this volume.

Lindsey3362

I already know about it, I just read so much that I didn't remember its technical name. I have a reference here with over 500 photos of how sulfur is built and used abroad - with a decent skimmer - is that necessary? Or does one not exclude the other?

Ashley5975

Sump should be planned with consideration for the future aquarium, with compartments accordingly. Algae can be grown directly in the aquarium, in the absence of surgeons. There is no need for a refugium for a small volume and the aforementioned population.

Laura3615

What size is your aquarium? There might be issues with lighting - it's better to have a fixture (not a lid), either T5 or T5 + MH of your choice. If you have an air conditioner set to 23 degrees constantly, you won't need any other cooling. A skimmer is being sold slightly used in the classifieds, but it will be suitable for a larger volume; I'm not sure about this one - check with the seller, and if it fits in terms of volume and budget, you can consider it. Once you decide on the skimmer, you can plan the compartments in the sump. The flow is from San-San to Coralia and Vortex. Are you thinking of drilling the aquarium or installing an overflow? What thickness is the glass in mm?

Brian6895

Make the SAMPA sections as simple as possible. If there is free space in the cabinet, leave it for possible additional equipment (controllers, sockets, overlays, etc.).

Destiny

+1000

Michelle104

In the sump, the compartments for the skimmer and for the algae will be at a constant level, while the last one, where the return pump is located, will be at a variable level; it is there that water evaporation will be reflected, so it should have a reserve. Ideally, the sump should be as large as possible, preferably the entire footprint of the future aquarium. Will you be topping off automatically or manually?

Jeremy3637

I have no idea, I still don't quite understand how this will affect aquarium maintenance. If it's once a week, for example, then I definitely don't need it, I'll add it myself.

Katie5500

Refilling is a daily task. I lose 2.5 liters a day from 250 liters. I refill...

Emily3144

Yes! I didn't think about that, although I know a thing or two about seawater from experience - Off-topic, I've been a sailor since I was 14. Thank you for that!!! It gives me hope - so I will be able to make 4-6 changes. It makes sense - if it really won't be expensive according to point #4 - I'll monitor prices now. Oh, if it turns out to be inexpensive to make 140 liters seriously - I will thoughtfully and thoroughly build a big one with your help!!! P.S. Maybe someone will sponsor me or give me a 500-liter aquarium on installment - I'm negotiating - by the way, it's made of acrylic - will it be suitable for the sea?

Jeffrey

Ohhhh ... well, if there is money, then I will do the topping up.

Larry9400

There are two problems with acrylic in the sea - scratching the glass during cleaning (no matter how hard you try, sooner or later a grain of sand will get under the scraper and...) and the inability to keep urchins in this case - they carve quite intricate patterns in the acrylic.

Eric8832

Cool, I wouldn't have thought of that. What if you use a magnet with a scraper instead of a scraper (I don't use them)? Does it scratch?

James5032

Yes, I got sand under the magnet - on the "facade" (and, as luck would have it, right in the center) there is a good scratch on the regular glass, a nice deep one, and there was an even bigger one on the acrylic.

Tonya

Guys, does acrylic polish if needed? People are going to dig out a 500-liter aquarium from the basement - I don't know what condition it's in. Maybe I'll start with 500.

John3335

I was referring to the magnetic scraper. Acrylic can be polished, but I can hardly imagine the process of polishing a scratch inside a reef aquarium weighing half a ton, about three centimeters from the bottom.

Lindsey3362

I was struck by the idea of trying to do this. The scratch was actually a bit higher. The desire to get rid of it still exists to this day... The focus didn't work out...

Rachel9060

You don't understand - the aquarium in the basement - a person used to take it seriously and then abandoned it - doesn't know what condition the aquarium is in. That's why I'm asking - if anything, can it be polished? And most importantly, how? The price of the aquarium will probably be ritualistic.

Mitchell3177

Don't complicate your life; why use acrylic with its distortions, dullness, and various flaws? You'll curse the day the idea came to you to use acrylic for a reef aquarium.

Rebecca1419

+100 Moreover, the only advantage is the weight of the aquarium itself. The funniest thing about acrylic is the seams; silicone doesn't separate like that.

Heather6148

The LED light will be very expensive, and if it is made, it should completely replace both MH and T5 (white and blue), but the price is currently much higher than MH + T5. Marin-Glo is expensive; you can either go for something simpler and cheaper (San-San Blue-Bio, Sylvania Coralstar, Aquamedic) or something better but slightly more expensive (ATI). It's worth considering a sump, but... what thickness is your glass - 6mm? If so, it's better not to drill it; if it's 8mm, then it's already better. Otherwise, you should install an overflow. You can use DG or Jebao 180, but a sump and DT are preferable at a minimum.

Tami

500. SD tape + 180 Bp. - I just took measurements at a friend's lab - we measured lumens - and this is what we got, it's completely SD without T5 - however, not 1500 euros for the brand name. I think I won't drill the 6 mm glass - I can't do it - so it looks like only hanging equipment in this case??? Maybe make neat little tubes and a sump??? If it justifies the trust placed in it? No, guys - be specific - if you say the sump is much better - then I'll take it on - but if not, then hanging equipment is easier for me. DT - what is that?

Melissa3200

Yes, I'm aware of those strips. The question (if the lumens are okay!) is what spectrum that tape has and whether it will be suitable for the sea? In fresh water, it works fine for us, but here, algae can grow and everything else, and corals might not like it. They use this for night lighting, or to supplement the main light (I don't remember what they catch - reflections or bunnies). By the way, gluing diodes to the radiator by hand turns out to be much cheaper than when an automatic machine does it, that's why... By the way, such a "nature" cover won't be suitable for the sea, especially if there will be an overflow.

Michelle1505

It is written there - on the strips 2700-3500K, but for the sea, this is rather not suitable. Everyone takes more - 6500 and above (better around 10000K), and they already go from 4 euros per piece. Here are already three different in spectrum, and even these are not the best. P.S. I don't know much about diodes, I'm just writing what I've read.

Curtis9143

We need a sample. If you find diodes with a suitable power in the range of 10000K-14000K, and at 160 per strip, please let us know. I think a couple of containers will be enough for the forum. "This 5000-7000 gives a cold purple light for the eye - I have a similar one hanging in my kitchen." Something is off... MH lamps up to 14000K still produce a white-yellow light. The blueness comes from lamps with 20000K.

Andrew9581

In the link you provided, click on specifications. Water Proof LED Flexible Strip (warm white 2700-3500, almost like Cree; if you don't have warm, but others, then take them with a margin for Cree as well). This is most similar to what we sell in tubes on reels.

David4968

Damn, I can't find it anywhere. Where is it?

Larry9400

Water Proof LED Flexible Strip - and click on Details Specification Data

Daniel

I understood everything - I was looking for a-y in K206 - of course I looked - after all, I provided the link myself - Notice that only "Warm Light" is marked in "K" - the rest is in Peak (nm) Wavelength - and here lies the mystery for me... at high temperatures it's simply K 5000...7000.

John3187

Did you check the power and length? 3.2 or 4.8 W/m. To reach 100W, you need 20 meters. The blue ones are fine, they shine their own light, but they are also weak.

William

Yes, I wrote you the power data from that site, but in reality, who knows. The price of ten Kryas is about twice as expensive as a simple MG. A radiator is needed for Krya (and it's big and expensive), so all together it will be more expensive than the MG constructor. Bunnies? Well, very often MG is installed for those "bunnies," T5 doesn't provide them. But in operation, yes, the diodes are much cheaper, we need to "cunkulate."

Elizabeth6302

By the way, with MG 150, the T5s are already diluted like a hare's spectrum. Now here's a question - I need a cover glass since I have four cats at home - I haven't figured out yet if there are any nuances or if it just serves as a cover and that's it?

Rachael

Marine aquariums should not be covered! Otherwise, all the dances around the world are for nothing!

Anthony

I really don't understand why to be so overly cautious? With zip ties, I mean? Well, they made it that way somewhere - just with ribs - so they probably calculated it... I arrived... so it turns out I can only mess around with the LL and make a lid... otherwise all my fish will be swimming in the aquarium in 5 minutes... it's been tested, one orange fish will be there even earlier than 3 minutes. Damn - just problems.

Matthew7977

You are being advised very correctly... When, due to a weak safety margin, the seams on the freshwater layer break, it results in a flood. And at sea, in addition to the flood, there is also a 100% chance of fire. We have already gone through this, and we sincerely do not wish this for you...

James3382

What kind of swimming cats do you have? Do you think they would also enjoy jumping into saltwater for fun? It's just that if all cats love to drink fresh water from the aquarium, maybe it would be easier with saltwater?

Melissa3820

Got it - buy silicone and you can put the ties right on top of the ribs??? If they were drinking water - let them get drunk, I don't care - there's a big risk that inside there will be... I'm at a dead end, honestly - it seemed like I figured everything out with the light - and now I have to mess with the lid...

Nicole263

I'll do just that. I also came up with a similar idea in a hurry. Or maybe just rig a grid with large cells on top so the cat doesn't slip through?

Anne4851

Some have the rim (like on the jewel - it's glued there), but the cat won't fall anywhere; you're not the only one with a cat - there are many photos on the logo where aquariums and cats are in front of them - I've never read about a cat diving into an aquarium.

Chad

I don't want you to read about this from me. The main thing is that there are options, I will think about it - for now, I will go read about MG again - it seems someone tried to power two 70W lamps from one 150W "power supply." It will be better - two 70W fixtures - the light distribution will be more even and I won't have to raise the fixture as high - I'm thinking about diving cats again.

Michelle104

it's a bad idea, if it starts - either the lamps will burn out quickly, or some other nonsense will happen. for two mg you need two sets of "guts" and two fixtures of 500w each.

Joshua

The main thing turned out to be that 70 watts live less than 150.

Charles894

So put one at 150 and supplement with T5 - it will be less hassle and cost, and it will be fine for your length.

Robert

Sanya, it turns out that with my 140 liters, I don't need T5s anymore - I'll use LED strips for additional lighting or put in 140 for the force-bandit marino-glow. It's there. I have my eye on this one - maybe I shouldn't complicate things and just get a ready-made light? We'll see... the main thing is that I've made a decision with your help and have two options.

Kristen2246

Why specifically to the ceiling?

Paul

You can attach them to the wall at the corners, it doesn't matter, the main thing is to hang them up, not to place them on the aquarium. By the way, they are heavy with the mist, especially if the ballast is built into the body.

David953

I still decided to make the console anyway - especially since you scared me that my aquarium is really weak in terms of strength.

Natasha7622

It's fine, just glue in the spacers and everything will be okay! I ordered mine, so I had it right away, but the second one (which is planned for the samp) wasn't available, even though I ordered it too, but I messed up. So it's better to hang the console and the san-san, since you'll have the mg; how will you adjust the height? Legs by 20-30 cm.

Brandon4517

I decided to monkey around like this. I liked that the height can be adjusted as needed.

John

It's also an option, but this way the pipes look more aesthetically pleasing. I think a rectangular frame for assembly won't be a problem. By the way, the height can also be adjusted.

Amy5070

Everything is going according to the plan approved by the forum. I ordered such an osmosis AURO-506P-2K from Akvake.ua - it will arrive in a day or two. I filled out the form and mentioned that I learned about them on the aquaforum - and Olga Kharitonova (the operator) immediately applied a 5% discount - I was pleasantly surprised. Oh, the corals are already being removed.

Jesse

San, please send me a private message with the phone number of the person you ordered the aquarium from - I want to get an idea of the price - does he understand the holes and shafts??? Because I don't understand it yet. Great!!! Yes-yes-yes, that means the aquarium won't be a problem. Well, I can handle that - I'll calculate it myself. I won't make the frame after all (that's my current thought) - I can just say that a slat 2 cm x 5 cm placed on edge is way better in terms of "deflection" than a beam 5x5. Or I'm also thinking of assembling a cabinet from furniture board - but dealing with it is a bit overwhelming for now.

Laura9093

I forgot to mention - my osmosis is arriving tomorrow.

Anthony7814

1. Yes, there is also Stockman and something else, but Durso is fine, the main thing is to make the pipes correctly later with valves and transitions for adjustment. 2. It will be about 45, I currently have 2-3 cm to the edge, but without wobble, with the shaft a little lower by 1-2 cm. I don't know. 3. Bad idea, T5 lamps 39W 85cm, 54W 115cm, so 110 is not great, better to go with the standard if you want more - 120. If it's MH, then at least 104, 106, 110 - there is no difference.

Erin2730

Well, they will do everything there (at Misha's) - I don't know how they will do it. I read about Dyurso - people are struggling with the bubbling, and the side pipe is not suitable, but it's somehow scary at the bottom. Now I'll read about Stockman.

Mark7376

If you're feeling anxious, you can additionally fence off the area with a shaft; it will relieve the pressure on the insertion point.

Shane

They will do it in the mine, and the piping under the stand (the drain and return branches) will also need to be figured out later. I don't think it matters whether it's on the side or at the bottom, as long as everything is done properly and there are no chips (cracks). However, if they make the bottom "triplex," then it's better on the side. There are a lot of silent durso overflows; the main thing is the transitions to a smaller diameter and the valve (from what I've read). Stockman is similar, but without a "spout."

Joseph

It's important to me - purely aesthetically - to have more lines of sight - but there's a pipe sticking out from the side - I still don't understand - why they don't do it on the back wall? Misha suggested triplex - like it's more reliable - but a simple 10 was planned.

Dawn6148

Is the back part behind? They make it, but mostly in cubes, and it is not comparable to the side; it carries more load, and the hole may reduce the safety margin. It might be stronger, I'm not sure, but I wouldn't drill "this triplex"; a hole in one thick piece would be more reliable. So for 250 liters, I think you don't need "triplex"; use a whole bottom of 10, 12, or 15 (but it will be expensive). Your dimensions are standard, not half a ton. I have an 8 mm bottom, just like the sides; there is a grid under the stones for ventilation, and the stones are secured—there is no point load, and nothing will fall.

Guy

Yes - the back. However, the bottom bears even more load than any side - and they are drilling in it.

Kevin3114

The bottom simply bears the load, as it rests on a flat, hard surface, which is probably why it is drilled. The side walls are also pushed outward, especially in long aquariums, and they bear different types of loads than the bottom, but these loads are greater. Sometimes, when there are no braces, the center of the aquarium is "bulging."

Cassandra7840

Logically!!! Then let it be the bottom - probably? Damn, the mine takes up a lot of space - then you have to fill it in with J.K. (living stones).

Alan273

People, don't get into the weeds. Drill where it's more convenient. Whether it's the bottom, the side, or the back. Holes are usually near the edge of the glass and don't pose any special dangers. Most of my aquariums are not drilled through the back (see the album). The three-meter one even twice. So make the overflow where it's convenient.

Michelle1505

Great!!! The back then - definitely!!!

Kevin

Guys, in practice, which size of the two is more "popular" in sales? Or both? Maybe it makes sense to build a 1200-liter aquarium? That would be 300 liters with a height and width of 0.5x0.5. Or am I already being driven to gigantism?

Heather

I purchased "wood" for the cabinet - furniture board - Beech, 18 mm, glued = 750.00. I miscalculated, I need to buy one more board 150. The cabinet has internal dimensions of D900-H800-W500 - guys, is this a normal cabinet?

Catherine

for 100x50x50? then make the cabinet 100, there's never enough space in it. don't forget to make the tabletop a couple of centimeters longer and wider. the height seems normal, it depends on how you will look at the aquarium - sitting, standing, lying down. take a tape measure and a pencil - mark the dimensions of the aquarium and the cabinet on the wall where it will stand, and then check the length of the aquarium, the volume, and the height. p.s. I drew on the wall, adjusted the height, then built the cabinet.

Jessica9188

Well then. 1. In terms of the load-bearing capacity of the stand, it's better to make it shorter than the length of the aquarium - that way, less of the countertop will be working as a "saddle." 2. The size of the panels allows for a height of 900 mm without trimming. Of course, there will be a 10 cm margin on each side - a bottle of beer will fit. Right now, the freshwater tank is 70 cm high - I'm tired of chasing the cat off the stool to sit and watch the fish - I decided to make it taller. Well, this is definitely not an option for me - where "it" will be placed, in a 30 sq.m. room, it will weigh one and a half tons and get lost.

Ashley5975

Did you write this based on the fact that glass does not transmit ultraviolet light? Or for some other reasons? Can you provide more details? After all, protective acrylic glass can be used, as is done in many lamps.

Natalie

Really? Why? What UV from LL lamps? Or other points?

Chad231

Guys, can't you figure out why cover glasses are not recommended for marine aquariums? It should be clear without any explanations... Think about it, doesn't logic give you any hints, or do you just read recommendations without thinking?

Jacqueline5976

I really don't have any logic to guide me - it can't - I'm a total newbie - that's why I'm asking for advice in this thread. Even UV doesn't tell me anything - it doesn't penetrate more than 2 mm under water, even without glass - I learned that in school. For aeration and gas exchange - it also doesn't make sense - so just point it out briefly, I'm perceptive - what's the essence?

Curtis9143

Oh, that's not relevant. Free gas exchange, an important aspect, plus the light transmission capacity of the covers will reduce the emitted lux by about 30-40 percent, and with splashing, it can be up to 70... And finally, in the absence of a refrigerator, such an aquarium will heat up to 35-38 degrees on the very first day.

Michelle104

I thought it was some kind of magic. Almost all factory aquariums come with lids, and the lamps are covered with a hood. This is because the hood can be regularly wiped down, while cleaning the lamp and reflector is much more problematic, and unnecessary evaporation on them is not desirable. Moreover, my cover glass gets hot from the lamps, and if I remove the glass, it will heat the water. The more open the aquarium is, the more water evaporates and the more foreign smells and dust from the air get in. Of course, there should be air circulation, but not to an extreme.

Nicole263

Everyone answered.

Tonya

Light is clear. We fight for every watt - therefore, the cover glass is the only enemy. And gas exchange is a trickster.

Michael3221

...For every watt. And especially in summer, for every degree downwards, in the absence of a refrigerator.

Charles894

I will find out how much the refrigerator will cost - although I have a powerful Daikin blowing in "this" room and it's +23, with +40 outside, every extra source of heat is felt - and this pot will heat up too. Today I will finish assembling the cabinet - I will start painting. I already mentioned that I am making it from furniture board (beech) - guys, beech is an incredibly hard and durable material, you can't drive in a self-tapping screw without pre-drilling - it breaks the head, I've already ruined two drill bits. It turns out to be an incredibly strong and heavy construction - I can take photos if anyone is interested.

Stephanie9175

The fact that the lamp will protrude slightly may bother you, but in terms of lighting, the angles will be illuminated because of this, which is a plus. In my opinion, the depth of the aquarium with these dimensions (55 cm) will be even better, and it's not just about the liters, but about the perception of depth.

Vanessa

Will this somehow interfere with the visualization in terms of not obstructing a comfortable view of the aquarium? Thank you so much for the advice - I intuitively thought the same.

Caroline1599

It needs to be seen... If it's done properly, then unlikely.

Jerry

but a set of markers is much better than one cool Parker. The analogy, I think, is clear. If I had the choice, I would first consider T5s, and then LEDs, plasmas, and MH.

Cynthia6578

Do you think aquariums contain only and it's fine, but without mg probably the height is better at 50. Here with T5, and San-Sany and Dai-light (post 209), and the size is the same, 6-8 T5 lamps 39W and it will be fine too, but maybe you won't be able to plant many picky species (those that need good strong light).

Amy1672

It will always be more expensive to change later than to take it right away. Regarding the LEDs, I only calculated the cost of the diodes for such an aquarium, without drivers, and I immediately felt like drinking and a lump in my throat rolled in. 100 pcs. 3W x 60. each = 6000. I asked to calculate the light for T5s for my aquarium - holding my breath - I await the verdict.

Ronald5720

San, so the height will be 500 mm - you yourself approved this size at the beginning of the topic. I definitely won't be planting and starting anything particularly finicky.

Brandy

1000x500x550 - usually the dimensions are length-width-height, but why is the width 55? Do you think it will make a difference for you? By the way, the standard sizes are 100x50x50, 100x60x50(60), 120x60x60, which are the most optimal.

Jessica5016

So this is Sanya - I already know him from this forum - he had trouble with this computer later. Guys - Sanya's cabinet is divided into two sections, and the sump is on the left, with something on the right, probably for topping up - I can also reinforce my cabinet with a brace like that - I thought the brace would get in the way - actually, I made a double countertop, but with the brace, it will look even better. Will a 40 cm by 50 cm sump be okay??? Please share your opinion quickly - I can still install this brace before it's too late.

Richard

recommended - wider - better - 550 cm. + one more T5 will fit extra.

Catherine

There are no photos of his lamp "during assembly" in this forum. What kind of spacer? I don't know. There are many of them. Copy the photo for yourself and highlight it in red in Paint or draw it, just specify which one exactly. 40x50 and by how much? What is 40 and what is 50? If the length and width are small, only the compartment for the foam will be 20 cm long "across the facade."

Brent7831

The matter is settled - I'm sorry!!! I looked into it in detail - for Sanya, it's not a solid partition - just a post.

Guy

Yes, and the sump is whole there, not in two parts, the stand, and it would be good for you to insert it (so that it fits, and the doors will close neatly on it). It was necessary to roughly calculate the future sump and drill the cabinet (for drainage, return, ventilation, and cooler) before applying the varnish, so that later you wouldn't have to deal with the details (opening where you drilled). The cabinet will be on wheels, or is it temporary?

Jeffery7866

I ordered a marine aquarium from Misha at AKVALIFE - I'm satisfied, I have a Durso. I understand you also order from Akvalife? If you want, you can come and take a look at my system, I live on 4 fountains. We can also think about the light fixture together - I'll show you how I modified my Chinese SAN SAN.

Robert

Aqualife - seams a la Aquatica

Loretta5483

I wouldn't say I'm satisfied - the aquarium is neatly glued - they've been gluing aquariums there for about 10 years - he has a steady hand and plenty of experience...

Robin

I'm not talking about that, the silicone mold on the seam "like Aquatica." I got it there too, but without holes - it was originally a cichlid tank.

Christopher1252

a..............exactly Aquatica :-)

Andrew4194

I sent you a message privately.

Frank7213

so you really want to drill - the bottom and the shaft? the side? the back? (I wouldn't, though...). by the way, you'll also check the shaft - you'll figure it out.

Jeffrey

Sanya, you didn't say what exactly you weren't going to drill? I'm leaning towards drilling the back wall for now - I don't really want to drill the bottom. So, what are we going to drill? Guys, what are we going to drill???

Christina9947

I wouldn't drill the back. For now, I'll be drilling my "overhead overflow," and later, when I set up a bigger one and move, I'll drill the bottom and install the shaft. Take a 12mm bit for the bottom and drill two holes (or three), I can't say how many or what diameter is better, I haven't dealt with that yet. You'll see the "Alek-style" shaft. The back is very large, and I'm not inclined to drill it at all, although I've seen such projects.

Kristen2246

Sanya, don't worry, you'll see how I have it and decide. I think Alik will glue the shaft for you, drill two holes in the bottom of the aquarium, then glue the pipes at your place, and everything will be just fine. He made a normal Durso for me, there's no noise at all.

Christopher1252

Well, that's fine, it will be 100 by 60 and 50, a depth of 50 can be well illuminated with T5 lamps. I don't quite understand what kind of stand you've built for yourself. I'd like to see a photo.

Shelby3182

in the 117th post of this thread, a photo of the nightstand

April3499

There was on the previous page.

Thomas1044

Here

Collin

and ......saw.........understood

Andrea8397

Make a shaft in the middle of the aquarium, and the shaft is not that small in size - about 10x15 or 15x15, so your 3 cm doesn't matter, especially if there will be two holes - the glass is not drilled all the way to the edge, there is also a margin. Make it 58, why does it have to be 60 in width? There is a difference of 10-20 liters, what difference does it make if it's 55, 56, 58, or 60? From the point of load distribution, you need a brace in the center for a weight of 400 kg.

Melinda2740

Friends - what are we rushing for - especially - some "Groundhog Day." Really, why so close - let it be 55 for the sake of simplicity. And about shifting the shaft - that's actually a thought!!!

Jeremy3637

It's fine. No, shift it either to the center of the aquarium (along the back) so that it can be decorated with stones properly, or it will look fine in the corner. As a last resort, you can move the aquarium to the side by 2-3 cm so that it doesn't bump into the edge.

Angela7060

Thank you for your hospitality and detailed consultation - today I visited him to see his masterpiece - it's quite a thing, an aquarium like his!!! And he is a wonderful person!!! Thanks. So, after the visit, my thoughts have settled down more or less - I'm going to Akvalife to Misha tomorrow to make a deposit for the aquarium - just don't push me - for the entire oil tank aquarium - for the entire countertop aquarium - 1200x500x600, I will additionally reinforce the stand. And I plan to place a shaft in the center, with a hole in the bottom - what do you think?

Devon107

Don't be scared - what did you want to say? Should I approve or not? Otherwise, I'm going to take apart the cabinet. My wife put the barbus fish up for sale - maybe she'll sell it and we'll have enough for the light.

Matthew1280

Maybe then we can attach "wings" to the stand to place an aquarium about two meters long, also made of 10mm? Or 12mm?

Sharon

Everything is fine, everything is normal. It was just interesting to "read" emotions. Once I saw the hill, I wanted to mold one just like it - the height increased, I noticed. Just think again about the mine in the middle. After that, global rearrangements will no longer be possible.

Bonnie

Yarik, for that length (the design of the cabinet won't allow it), we can only have either a shaft in the middle (or shifted 15 cm from the corner, which I think is not very good) or a side drain - there’s no third option without modifying the cabinet.

Bethany

I installed the edge banding - now it's going to be tough - tomorrow I'll put another shield, the main thing is that they don't run out in the epic. I'll also put it on the countertop - I'll remove the lacquer, glue it down, and tighten it with screws-screws-screws.

Amy9618

It seems that there is only one option. The central shaft. The emphasis was on the fact that this decoration (shaft-residential complex) cannot be moved anywhere if there is a need to fundamentally change the decor. Over time, some forum members mentioned that they would not replicate the central drain if they were to design the system now.

Joseph6461

I would make two holes in the back wall at the edges, with small overflow pockets. I would create a water inlet in the center. This would provide good circulation and would also look aesthetically pleasing. For the outlet, a hole is actually not needed! You can run plastic pipes from the top at the back. I usually create several outlets and do not glue the end sections - this allows for some flexibility in adjusting the flow with the feed pump.

Joseph1346

So in the back??? Just like I want? Are you sure it won't burst? "I'm scared, Slava! (c) A 10mm glass is planned. What do you mean? Make several drains??? Why did they ask me about three holes? Apparently, someone has done it more than once - then according to the logic above, there should be just one hole - for suction - right??? And where do the other two go? Like flutes????

Mario

three holes - drain, emergency, and return, and there, whoever wants, does as they please. some only need the drain, and the return for the aquifer some need the drain and emergency and someone has the return "sticking out" from the shaft so it turns out - from one to three p.s. how much money have you already wasted on the cabinet? wouldn't it have been easier and cheaper to just make a metal frame?

Stuart

Yes, like in the bathroom, the principle of operation is the same: a pipe, also in a shaft, 1-2 cm high to the edge of the aquarium, and without a Durso standpipe. It is used for emergency drainage of water in the aquarium - if the Durso gets clogged, the water from the aquarium does not drain, and the pump from the return compartment will continue to pump, which without an emergency drain will lead to water overflowing over the edge of the display aquarium. How often the Durso gets clogged - who knows. Whether an emergency drain is needed - it's up to you, not everyone installs it.

Angela7060

Nooo - well, I probably need something like that - but apparently it will lower the water level in the aquarium - you can't make such a hole right at the top - so it means I need to lower it...

Sara4035

It is made just up to "the very top," it should be higher than the Durso, and the hole for it is drilled in the shaft, in the bottom, and from there just a pipe sticks out, like they do with a side drain - I don't know.

Amber6362

Ah-aaaaah, now I understand - everything was thought out well, even before us. I still looked into the info on Durso and I'm leaning towards not complicating things and making it "in the bottom," in the corner and with a "hazard light" - well, the wings stick out 130 mm. I'll put neat elbows at 45 degrees there and lead it to the stand. Just with the side Durso - a smaller volume is taken from the aquarium under the shaft - ohhh man... guys please - just tell me something else - to get rid of the doubts.

Tina

It's not about the wings and knees, but the fact that your shaft in the corner, at 120 cm long, can simply hit a vertical post, so it's hard to tell you anything without knowing its dimensions. And where is the back wall? Is it at the very end or is there a setback there too? Take a marker and draw the shaft on the countertop to see where it is, where it goes, and what is obstructing it. The dimensions are about 15x15, I'm not sure, maybe 20x20, ask. And here's the aquarium (a bit larger) with an offset shaft (just a real-time project). What about the bottom? Did you also take ten or twelve?

Dennis

Sanya, it's all about the wings. Nothing just lands on the edge by chance - and the dimensions are known down to the millimeter - in general, everything will be decided on Monday - Alik will come to work, and I will talk to him - he's a seasoned pro. Alik is going through a great sorrow, he buried his son 40 days ago - the boy was 16 years old - what a tragedy... it's even uncomfortable to bother him with this...

Maria

Buddy, I read and thought about your advice again - thanks once more - but when you say two holes, do you mean one for the drain and the other for the "emergency" as Sanya already explained to me? And specifically in the back wall - not in the side wall - just to be sure, I'm asking again.

Matthew

Just measure everything accurately so that the dimensions in the picture and the stand match. Make it 55 by 118 to have some margin, and place the shaft in the center, or slightly off-center; a corner one probably won't work, and even if it does... whatever, attaching the corners is a hassle, and it's better to make it so that it just drains straight into the sump, without bends, corners, etc. The simpler, the fewer seams and potential problems in the future. What about the lighting? T5 54W? Homemade or Chinatown? I would have made a 100x50x50 aquarium with the shaft in the corner (which is what I was planning the stand for), and it would have been less hassle. At first, how much did you want? 120? And now it's already over 300.

Michael826

It is indeed on the back wall. BOTH TO DRAIN! Please take a look at photo number 11 in my profile album. It is done exactly that way. The length of the aquarium is 2.8 meters, and the volume is 1300 liters.

Danielle8118

I would recommend two fixtures with four bulbs each. So, are you planning to drill again - side or back? You don't need two drains, your length is small, and the return is indeed through the top. What kind of photo do you want? Side overflow or return through the top? Decide on what you will be drilling, and Alik and Misha will drill it for you. Why do you need offsets - no offsets - the main thing is that they are aware of what and how.

Adam

Will the lighting be more even? If possible - then the back. If not - then the bottom. One "hole" - drain. Second "hole" - emergency - you enlightened me on this matter. Return through the top. And if someone could show the overflow in the back wall - I would be really happy - I would show it to Alik, if he hasn't done that yet. So I'm trying to figure it out. And if they are not aware of the "back wall" - I would just tell them where to drill and the dimensions of the shaft and show them a diagram or a photo.

Eric5208

Yes, more evenly, especially if you don't hang it but place it in the aquarium. The emergency drain is definitely possible "in the shaft," but when it's "from the side" - who knows if it's there or not. The return in the photo in the first post - the white pipe at the top left - I can't find a picture showing the entire pipe layout. Here in post 10, the drain is visible from the side and the return as well. Here is the drain on the "facade," but there were no other options there.

Patricia1746

Here, look - it's just your option. The overflow on the right in the back wall, the inlet on the left with a plastic pipe. Circulation throughout the aquarium. 1 - this is roughly how the pipe runs from the pump 2 - overflow pocket with a drain. And the overall plan. P.S. Post 171 - you understood everything correctly! Do it as you have in your drawing, just with a hole in the back wall. Nothing will break, don't worry.

Joshua

2 for 4 is cheaper than 1 for 8. Are you sure you need two in the back wall??? Maybe one is enough, or you might end up drilling for a return - then it will be three. Think about it. It's not a flute, just a nozzle, sometimes it can be flattened; I'm going to install a spinner (deflector) for myself. The pipes are probably 1/2 for the return, and 3/4 for the drain, 1/2 for my volume.

Earl

Damn it, Sanya, you explained the emergency light to me yourself, and now it's not needed.

Scott9892

I told you at the bottom, not in the "back." I haven't seen two holes next to each other in the rear window with such an overflow (check with Misha and Alik). P.S. And if there is no auto-fill and everything is calculated correctly, then the emergency stop is not needed at all, and I very rarely hear about the drain getting clogged. Besides, you don't have neighbors below to flood. Even if there is an auto-fill from the tank (make it about 20 liters and that's it).

Angela

Well, during the spill at the bottom, there are also holes in that shaft. In general, I will talk to Alik.

Brent8919

One hole is enough! I don't make emergency exits anywhere either. You just put a comb in the pocket and that's it! The size of the pocket is to fit the hand to install the Durso. It's better to make it 3/4 after all. P.S. "Overflow" is where the "Supply" drains - where it fills up.

Michelle5859

4.5 cubic meters per hour is low... What kind of pump will be used? As for the size of the pocket, honestly, I never thought much about it - I made it so that it was convenient to install the pipes and so that it was actually possible to get the fish that ended up there.

Charles

Got it - then I'll do 3/4!!! I don't know what pump it will be... whatever I can afford will be it.

Sarah

Alek glues very precisely, millimeter by millimeter, without mistakes.

Jennifer

Has the thickness of the glass changed? Let them break it down into details: - price of the glass with cutting - hole - edge processing (if any) - price of silicone - labor cost They should provide this information to you. Then everything will become clear. P.S. Just roughly estimated that if the glass is 10 mm and the EDGES ARE POLISHED, and the silicone is of Den Braven quality, then the price turns out to be quite reasonable. They probably missed something in the first option...

Selena4467

No, it hasn't changed - it's still a size 10. Plus 20 cm in length and 10 cm in width, and plus 1000, it turned out. The thing is, I am a polite and delicate person, but when I sense that someone wants to take advantage of me, I change before their eyes into a completely different person. I'm afraid of making unnecessary "calculations" there, while I have the desire to take the advance and turn to other people.

Breanna9982

I just need to know that this is a normal price and not inflated. It seems to have eased my mind right away. I don't know if they polish it or not, but they definitely grind it - I'll ask tomorrow what kind of silicone they use.

Jill1815

The price is reasonable - Misha is not overcharging.

Jessica5348

The first price was cheap, something was not calculated. A year and a half ago, my 10-liter cost 800 without holes and other things (but I took an 8-liter), and this one is 90x40x40 or 140 liters, so it's the same 5 and a bit per liter, which is what you get at the second price. I don't know how much tubes and holes cost, but one comb costs around 100, so 500 (especially since it hasn't changed) is quite realistic.

Julia

150 "branded" - I found out. Thank you, guys - you calmed me down - I was getting worked up - I thought they were pulling my leg. Guys - I'm confused that I won't have enough drainage with a half-inch pipe - is it really too little to have five volumes of water per hour through a half-inch? After three-quarters, 8.3 volumes per hour will be circulating - so what should I say to have them installed???

Crystal4879

They will then install a valve and narrow it down to prevent the Durso from gurgling, so put 3/4 on top, and you can use 1/2 under the valve. For the return, it's also preferable to have 1/2 with a valve. Not too much, just enough to control it with the valve, and it's easier to achieve uniformity in draining and filling with valves. But what if 1/2 isn't enough? Will you have to drill again? And those are the maximum figures; in reality, it will be less. P.S. You will be confused when you reach the numbers for the necessary streams you need to pump.

Stacey4437

Even with maximum figures, A. Ov writes about 2-3 volumes per hour - and here it's 5!!! - 3/4 is actually 8.3 volumes - maybe there's another hidden meaning - like it grows over or something? I, of course, am a novice in the "sea," but the option of sloshing is more likely in pipes of larger diameter, from the calculated - as a practitioner, a "pipeline worker" with solid experience, I say - that's why they use a smaller diameter later on - you can't fool hydrodynamics.

Luis3725

1/2 on the drain, for my volume, 200-250 at most. for yours 3/4 that's why they narrow it down with a transition near the faucet, so it doesn't slosh, kind of creating a funnel - I don't know how to explain it to you properly - I read about it on the logo. I gave you a link to the topic of Zhenya Yeshmalayev (where the facade is drilled), did you see the diameter of the pipe there? and there it's 250 liters.

Phyllis

Sanya-Nepasya-Alik will make holes of the required diameter and will properly glue the pipes.

Noah1632

I consider particle board - in "important" load-bearing structures - especially "Lviv" I never considered - however, look at Polish aquariums with stands - and these are aquariums of 700-800 liters, they are placed on such stands - and I have seen how they are bought and especially how people pay attention to the "design" of the stands - well, there are certainly many cross walls, but still... I won't repeat what has been said - about furniture boards - glued - there's a lot of information online - I just recommend to everyone - while it still costs real money. And metal is not a panacea...

Gabriel

There are combs that cost 100, and many make them from acrylic – it takes about 5 minutes of work. The price may not be cheap, but they are made to specific dimensions, and if you have access to a machine or (I forgot what the manual one is called), then it's just wonderful. I'm not aware of the price of the couplings; it might be hard to find them. As for your "wings," I'm not worried since you know what you've done, I'm speaking figuratively.

Daniel4967

San, what the heck, why should I look for something cheaper? Misha's aquarium is quite reasonably priced. Out of respect for them, I will buy the AquaMedic for 150. I will order the sample from them and ask for a discount for loyalty to the company. P.S. About the wings and the cabinet, I'm not worried. I just gave you the info for consideration. When it's settled in your mind, it will come in handy in the future. You advised me so much, and I'm very grateful for that. I'm trying to do a little something in return for you regarding the cabinet.

Laurie3842

Where did you already make the "Argus"? Or will there be fresh ones swimming there?

Carrie1606

I don't know, I "cut" the partitions, I read that water makes less noise. Also, don't forget to drill the supply pipe (i.e. "diffuser"), I drilled at the level of the bottom of the "crest." You will need a pump similar to Eheim 1260 or 1262, or simpler analogs, because those 200 and 250 USD - Aquamedic, New Jet, or China - Atman or Halera.

Brian6895

I don't know about the slanted partitions. It certainly won't be worse. The drop is just so small that... Is the outlet of the supply pipe planned to be submerged deeply? If so, then it naturally needs to be siphoned. Although you can just submerge them in water at an angle of 1/2 or 3/4 of the diameter.

Nicole

I installed a Khudorovsky deflector for myself at the outlet, so I lowered it by about 8 cm, that much the sump didn't accept, I drilled at the level of the bottom of the crests at the drain (2-2.5 cm) from the surface, it fit in there quite easily.

Mark

I ordered a skimmer from Vitaly, he recommended this one - I'm not rushing things, I haven't figured everything out yet. I have the cabinet, the aquarium is in production, and I ordered the skimmer. For now, that's all - now I will deal with the lighting and read about sumps.

Allison

Buddy, stop "rolling out" on me - you're hurting me. Yes, I understand, I probably express myself awkwardly - please forgive me. That's it - now I understand - Thank you!!!! I will coordinate with you - as long as I don't annoy you with silly questions and you don't send me away... Yarik - so I understood correctly - the partition should not be made of glass, but of a grid??? A solid partition - a grid??? That is, it is completely permeable and the level in both chambers is the same? What mesh cell size should it be so that algae don't get into the other compartment? Should it be made of plexiglass??? Again, what should be the diameter of the holes?

Joseph

Agreed No, we've already invested so much effort that we'll see it through to the end no matter what. I think we can use plexiglass. Any convenient diameter will do - the heteromorpha lives like a sponge and doesn't really get into the gaps. Everything about the level is correct.

Lisa

Can you imagine - this is just the stage of assembling - how will I entertain you when I start launching??? I will look for a piece of plexiglass - it's been tested, they make aquariums from it - I'll drill some holes - I think I'll glue the plexiglass with silicone??? Yarik - do you have any comments about the pen that I ordered from Vitaly??? Is it okay for my jar?

Noah1632

Plex is acrylic, plexiglass? If yes, then "Epicenter," department 90, there is. You won't glue it. It's normal if Vitalik redoes it. What pump will be on it? Atman or Laguna?

Brooke3987

Yes. San, why wouldn't I glue it??? Silicone, isn't it indifferent? It takes whatever you want. Moreover, I've already read how aquariums are glued - a gap of a millimeter and I'll fill it with silicone. Or do you have different information? And what should I make this grid from then? Drilling glass - no way. Laguna - there Vitala himself wrote that it's a tested pump.

Leah

You can't install plexiglass on silicone. I would just glue in guiding pieces of glass and insert the plexiglass partition into them like a groove. A foam sealant will work - Vitaly's hands are in the right place.

Brent7831

The idea is great!!! Hmm, I didn't realize that plexiglass doesn't stick to silicone... Damn, I have ribs glued into the aquarium from which I will make the sump - I need to think of something clever.

Melissa3820

What thickness of acrylic are you planning to get, 10 mm? 1.5, 2, or 2.5 mm will be enough, and it bends - you can insert it into the groove of the guides by bending it slightly, instead of from the top, and the ribs won't get in the way.

Ricardo7341

In fact, I understood that this partition is just to prevent algae from getting into the compartment with the pump, right? Guys, what if we make a similar one between the foam filter and the algae filter??? It would create one huge compartment in volume.

Thomas1044

Yes, mainly to prevent the algae from getting sucked into the pump. No, let the skimmer be separate. The lagoon is good, but not "budget-friendly." Don't worry about the sump until the skimmer arrives.

Jason9385

San, be a friend, can you briefly explain why there is only overflow where the pen is? What’s going on there - I swear the search is already red - I found very little specific info about the samples - I’m starting to understand intuitively, but not completely.

Ryan7682

San, the dimensions of the pen are already known. In the garage (I went to check), there is a ton of 5 mm acrylic - there will be a grid.

Joshua8425

I didn't quite understand your line of thought. Is it the overflow of the aquarium? It's not where the skimmer is; the overflow is at the top of the aquarium. Maybe it's the drain? Why are the skimmer and the drain in the same compartment? Shouldn't they be in different ones? Why is there only a drain and a skimmer in the compartment? The skimmer isn't small; nothing else will fit, and having an algae scrubber with the skimmer in one compartment is nonsense.

Mitchell3177

Damn, you didn't get it - I meant why the partition between the foam filter and the algae filter should be impermeable - only overflow into the algae filter through the top of the partition - why not make the same kind of grid as between the algae filter and the return pump - it would create one big sump.

Joseph

Redesigned to the same dimensions - I discussed this with Vitala - the sole is indeed huge - but a pump is installed on it. I will increase this chamber by 2 cm - to 37 cm, while the width will remain 17 cm - Vitala said it will be tight, but the calcium mixer will fit - the reactor won't. What about the robots??? Damn - I'm even more confused. I thought this compartment should just be a bit higher in level compared to the algae tank and the return, and match the sizes and level of the foam separator. I'm starting to see clearly... Thank you, brother!!!

Rodney

The pen is separated by a partition so that the water level in the compartment remains constant, regardless of the evaporated water. Regarding the "clogged drain." Has anyone ever encountered this? If so, please share your experience. I have launched at least a dozen seas, and it has never happened. With a grid in the pocket, the situation is extremely unlikely!

Tammy2040

I feel, guys, that the freshwater aquarium from which the sump is supposed to be made won't work. It's 50 cm tall, and the foam from Vitaly is 40 cm. Will it be convenient to reach in there to clean the bowl? Or should we raise it on a stand?

Rodney3101

How high is the height in the stand? I told you that the partitions need to be 20-25 cm, you don't need to take out the entire foam, just the cup, it can be removed. Well, if you want to make a new sample, then it's not a problem. And that Argus can also be trimmed with a "mop" if desired. But in general, wait for the foam, then you can figure it out.

Katherine

The cabinet is 760 mm inside - clear height. San - I just thought - I will call Vitaly now, I paid for the order - so I think maybe something more expensive but - already by the size of the platform - should I ask him??? And is it possible to cut the aquarium down in height??? How is that - or rather with a turbine or what???

Bethany

the cup will just fly by the foam is normal, the pump is good, the price is great - why complicate things further when this one is suitable for your volume you can, but you don't need to. at least until the foam and aquarium arrive, you'll see on site. more volume reserve. cutting - sometimes it can crack. no, not with a turbine, with a glass cutter on a guide (it looks like a mop - that's what many call it)

Leonard

The damn Chinese should use T5 54W for 120cm, and here it will be a "checkerboard." 1. T5 doesn't need to be raised high. Fish won't be fed if you climb there (and this happens rarely after creating the whole "design"). 2. Yes, there's a single crappy one for all the lamps. It's not necessary to change all the parts at the start; it can be done over time or gradually. The lamps will also be fine for the initial period, just add actinics. Calculate everything considering the upgrade (the total) and compare it with 6 T5 54W, and decide there. As an option, two of those. Well, or, but the price leaves much to be desired, and I'm not sure about the quality.

Tricia7885

I didn't understand anything - your keyboard is acting up. Both options are nonsense? The one in the quote is better?

Alejandro

What's jumping? Maybe I hit it while editing the post. It's all nonsense, it's China. 8 at 39W and 6 at 54W - almost the same. The question is different - what do you want to change (immediately or not), how do you understand electricity (yourself or someone else), how much money do you have, and what do you want in the end. 4 at 39 and 3 at 54 - wider, space for four lamps, better after the upgrade (but what the upgrade will turn into and whether it's worth it, who knows).

Julie4738

You seem a bit confused today - I don't understand all your phrases. In electricity, "I can do it myself" - if necessary - changing the parts doesn't require much brainpower - the main thing is to find them. If the reflectors are crap, then making them myself is already a hassle; the plan was to use mirrored acrylic, but that's a silly idea, I've already thought it through. What I want is average-level light - for starters - and I can't afford 500 euros at this stage.

Collin

Cool lamp, but the timers there reset during long power outages, which I really don't like. About the reflectors, it seems they didn't skimp. Polished aluminum. Sanya, just between us, I've already saved 300 bucks on lighting.

James5032

Sand from Vitaly, 1mm fraction (not the finest) - just what you need!

Brooke

How much should I take from him???? He had 100 kg left yesterday - if anything, I'll reserve it - so he can send it along with the foam.

Sharon

Well, just send him your aquarium specs, he will calculate it for you - 2-3-4 cm should be enough. I have about three, but there's also a grid lying there (13-15 kg for my bottom size).

Christopher1774

I booked 40 kg - it will come with the foam pad. 5 cm = 36 kg - to make it even, I had to take 40. Sanya - I can give you 4 kg for free...

Angela6489

What have I done to you? Adding 4 kg of sand will cause a soft reset for me or possibly just cyan. No, thanks, that's enough. I've already pumped out a couple of kilograms, about 3 cm is just enough for me.

Thomas5021

wrote in a private message

Kathryn514

Just request photos of the reflector - if there is one for six lamps like in the sauna - then who knows, and wait for Login's calculation, what are you calculating - 6x54 T5? Or 8x54? Here are their drivers.

Christopher8654

Of course, I will wait - even if it's 50 bucks more expensive, I will get it from him since he's nearby and seems "one of us." I'm considering 6x54 watts.

Helen

A labyrinth is not needed if there is a good drain that doesn't push bubbles into the sump. In general, this scheme won't work. The drain and return sections need to be swapped, with the drain on the right and the return on the left. This has been tested from personal experience.

Michelle5859

I read it carefully, and a bunch of potential silly questions disappeared from A to Z. It's a lot to read, but it's interesting—definitely for beginners. Now I know about "hydrogen sulfide" from supposedly a thick layer of sand.

Kevin

The funniest thing is that all my aquariums are organized exactly like that - drain on the right, return on the left... But what will change if I switch them? Apparently, the subconscious principle of the clock hands comes into play... I agree about the foam.