• About bacteria.

  • Natalie

I will try to clearly formulate the question. In literature and especially on the websites of aquarium chemical manufacturers, there are statements that with prolonged maintenance of a marine aquarium, most species of beneficial bacteria gradually degenerate. A so-called "mono-culture" is established. Two methods of combating this are mentioned: periodically replacing live rock (which is not always possible) or adding concentrates with bacterial cultures. I suggest discussing this issue. How does everyone handle it? Replacing live rock with fresh ones is not always feasible—corals have already grown onto them, and it’s not desirable to disturb them. Moreover, it’s not always possible to reconstruct the previous arrangement of rocks even after a simple temporary rearrangement. Many aquarists have their rocks glued together. So, we are left with chemistry. What does everyone use? And does anyone use it at all? What should be considered when dosing in addition to the recommendations provided in the product annotations? Or is all this talk about bacterial mono-cultures nonsense and not worth worrying about?

Jonathan6173

I have also wondered about this. There is also the concept of "old aquarium syndrome." That is, a balance is often established (very good, somewhat worse, or a complete swamp) that cannot be shifted by reasonable methods (additives, changing the population, bacterial strains). I also know that in cases of persistent problems, it is easier and recommended to completely restart the aquarium every three years. Especially if, for example, there was overheating, a "DSB explosion," it was without light for a long time, and similar catastrophes.

James3382

There seemed to be no practical evidence, but logically, the theory of monoculture has a right to exist. Happy owners of real SAMPs have the most valuable thing in this case - the ability to change J.K. (live rocks) in the SAMP. And the cycle of g.... in nature will do its job on the existing structure of J.K. (live rocks) with corals.

Angela

It will be an expensive pleasure to change live rocks. What to do with the old ones? Sell them? Again, how much of this fresh live rock is needed in relation to the volume of the aquarium? How often should it be changed? Moreover, fresh "wheel" live rocks need to be held somewhere for a couple of weeks to let the dead matter come out. If the theory about bacteria is correct, I would lean more towards chemistry. The questions regarding it are posed in the first post of the topic.

Andrew9246

The question is not about monoculture, but about the degeneration of bacterial populations from different cultures. I don't see a problem in adding a bit of fresh rock and a "handful" of fresh sand to the aquarium. Concentrates... Science is not standing still, but we must not forget about the commercial side of the issue. Are all these innovations fair? P.S. Although if we take the flu virus, it constantly mutates... and does not degenerate.

Kimberly3727

Honestly, guys, I think that "all this nonsense about monocultures of bacteria is not worth worrying about." You can kick me...

John3187

"How much is 'a little'? For example, in relation to a 400-liter system? How often should it be changed? For a resident of Kyiv, it's quite simple to take a trip to Indonesia or the Caribbean, collect some sand in a bag, and return to Kyiv. Or do you mean fresh sand from another aquarium? It won't be fresher than mine. Or are you referring to Black Sea sand? There, in the sea, there's hardly any water, just industrial and human waste in liquid form."

Shawn

1. In my opinion, the problem is not so much in adding stones, but in the danger of introducing some kind of infection like palolo, aiptasia, or crypto. You can add 1-2 kg once a year. The main thing is "fresh blood." To refresh the culture of bacteria. 2. I don't know about Black Sea sand, but it might make sense to buy a bag of so-called live sand.

Jessica

Indeed... When you are cultivating a monoculture for an aquarium, such as growing single-celled algae to feed aquatic organisms, the main task is to ensure that the monoculture is not contaminated by other species that can easily spread through the air in the aquarium (it's no joke, Nannochloropsis can do this along with "bubbles" from the phyto-reactor). However, when it comes to maintaining a multi-component system like an aquarium, you need to be careful that nothing from the monoculture (like Aiptasia?) gets introduced.

William1830

You can put 5-7 kg in the sump every six months, but on the condition that it's not rotten, but fresh stone from a good supplier... It's better in spring and autumn when our temperatures are not extreme.

Heather2018

Marine chemistry is also expensive for us. But I would do everything through Samp... I would put 3-5 kg in Samp, sell it in about six months at some price. There will be financial losses, of course, but relative to the overall costs by sea, they are tolerable. And whatever stone I like, I can put it in a display aquarium...

Kevin3114

Bacteria vary. There are resilient strains and there are weak ones. Marine aquariums need both. But here's the catch: If you "feed" the bacteria excessively, you might encounter a bloom of lower forms. If you keep them starved, the stronger ones will survive at the expense of the weaker ones, resulting in a monoculture. Not because they have degenerated, but because they have won the struggle for survival. It's clear that maintaining a balance is necessary, but actually achieving this for bacteria...

Rodney7316

What actually lives in the sea in real live rocks, I can only speculate. Therefore, it remains with a certain degree of trust to believe the manufacturers of various miracle bacteria, to throw new live rocks in and lament that we do not live by the shores of tropical seas.

Emily3506

I support bacteria in bottles. When adding live sand or live rocks to an established aquarium, there will definitely be a spike of something undesirable. For example, when I decided to add live sand to an active aquarium, the result was two months of battling cyanobacteria. But with bacteria from a bottle, it can be added every day, and the system gets used to it. Although it is quite expensive from a financial perspective, and there is a constant dependency on this bacteria. Everyone must believe that they are doing the right thing, and everything will work out. So, if someone believes that they can succeed without live rocks and without bacteria, then good for them!

Mitchell3177

1. Where did the sand come from? From a bag of live sand or from another aquarium? 2. There is a discrepancy here. We pray to the main miracle - the Live Rock, which houses the necessary bacteria. And the bacteria from the test tube - they live for a couple of days in water, consume what we want to remove, and then die or get removed by the skimmer? So, if they need to be added every day, the Live Rocks do not colonize and have nothing to do with the bacteria that live in them?

Elijah7048

J.K. (live rocks) is a supplier of strains and substrate. I believe that bottled bacteria suppliers greatly simplify the diversity of colonies that exist in live reef rock. This is why this rock is valuable.

Erin

The sand was alive from the CARIBSEA bag, just like what was previously added; any introduction of something living will inevitably react in the aquarium. I am not against live rocks, in fact, I fully support them, but only during the initial setup and maybe once a year. The bacteria on the rocks do not live long, some remain, so the bacteria from the bottle still supplements and possibly settles on these rocks. The main thing is to believe in it.

Stephanie9175

Yes, it was us with Sanya who glued these boxes.

Timothy

Off-topic Aha, gotcha!!!...

Anthony4281

The thing is that if you follow the simple basic rules of aquarium keeping, everything will thrive and bring joy. However, passion, as a hobby, often borders on fanaticism. To achieve slightly better results, everything is put into play. There are miraculous additives, extraordinary lighting, wave makers, miracle chemicals, miracle foods, manual counting of bacteria, and knowing them by sight and name. The hunt is more intense than captivity. Again, the less knowledge one has, the more faith there is in miracles.

Nancy

, +1, I completely agree

Jeffrey6189

Here are two aquariums where bacteria, amino acids, and other chemicals are poured in. Show me at least one with such colors on Black Sea stone? A bottle of bacteria costs only 150, and feeding is 160. It lasts for a 300-liter aquarium for 3 months. I consider this not a large amount of money for a marine aquarium.

Kenneth7210

I slightly disagree. These two different "soft" aquariums in the Black Sea residential complex (live rocks) 80% and 100% Black Sea sand are also alive (the time distance from the sea and loading into the aquarium is 5 hours). I wouldn't say that the situation with the colors is bad, as well as the well-being of all the soft corals and LPS. P.S. Bacteria are not overflowing, minimal water changes of 10% per month, but I add trace elements regularly.

Katie5500

Alek, can you tell me how much marine life in the Black Sea sand died due to the transition to a much higher salinity than in the Black Sea, and what happens to it afterwards? And one more question - does the sand have any silicates, or were we just lucky?

Marie5735

I may be a complete novice in the sea, but the first thing that came to my mind is to exchange J.K. (living stones) with each other once or twice a year.

John5528

I once read about the repair of J.K. (living stones) and, fearing monoculture, decided to add "only" 8 kg. The next month, there was no fear of monoculture; I was too busy dealing with cyanobacteria. Moreover, I have a stone in my sump (two fish live in it), and I took a couple of stones from there and transferred them to the display aquarium - a cyanobacteria explosion happened specifically on that stone, even though the systems are the same. Apparently, there is a difference in temperature/lighting (not significant, but present). So how should I handle the stone in this case? Should I give it a bath in pure saltwater and keep it there for a couple of days?

Alec9378

Off-topic. Well, if the sea is full... then it's better without advice. There's enough confusion here as it is.

Jennifer9100

Is it problematic to remove the stone from the samp? Or do the bacteria remain the same?

Joseph2576

Many rocks have corals on them, and very often removing an old rock is not the same as adding a new one (in terms of manipulation complexity). The transportation/packaging itself is already a lot of dead organisms (from macro to micro), and it's one thing to deal with the percentage from freshly arrived rock from Indonesia, and another thing entirely with not-so-fresh rock from a saltwater aquarium of a different brand (than yours) that has survived a couple of cyanobacteria outbreaks, absorbed a few "liters" of various chemicals, and so on... And this is before potential disputes like "there's an aiptasia on your rock"...

Lindsey3628

here it comes.............and that happens too.............

Brent8919

"Inbreeding" - this is the exact term that applies when there is no introduction of new bacteria from fresh live rocks. Due to inbreeding, bacteria degenerate over a certain period. That's why I mentioned "fresh blood."

Alec9378

What are you talking about?!!! What inbreeding in bacteria?!!! For that, at least sexual reproduction is needed!

Noah1632

+1000.

Brooke

I had a lot of cyanobacteria, but only on the rocks. There wasn't a single spot on the sand! Look at my photos from the first post. Your theory about the sand is incorrect. Based on my observations, and I had plenty to observe, cyanobacteria is one of the links in a certain food chain: 1. something (I don't know what) settled BEFORE the cyanobacteria 2. then the cyanobacteria settled ON THIS unknown organism (as if it were parasitizing it) 3. and then something else (green-brown "moss") settled ON THE CYANOBACTERIA (right on top of it), which then died, resulting in a clean bottom. Let's continue observing...

Jeremy

Transduction, transformation, conjugation - all of this is good, of course, but a colony of bacteria cannot degenerate due to "inbreeding conjugation," because this process constitutes a tiny percentage of the total number of bacteria that reproduce by division.